Ethanol from food? Forget it. From wood waste, maybe

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Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:23:32 AM

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Ethanol from food? Forget it. From wood waste, maybe Friday, July 04, 2008
The Vancouver Sun -- The headlong rush by Ottawa and most provinces to support grain-based ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, says a new C.D. Howe study released Thursday. When you allow for the energy it takes to make grain-based ethanol and its inefficiency compared to gasoline, the science is inconclusive as to whether it really reduces greenhouse gas emissions, the study says. And even if it can be shown to reduce the total amount of CO2 spewed into the atmosphere, the cost per tonne is as much as seven times higher than other GHG-reducing strategies.
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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 7/4/2008 10:22:30 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Friday, July 04, 2008 The Vancouver Sun -- The headlong rush by Ottawa and most provinces to support grain-based ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, says a new C.D. Howe study released Thursday. When you allow for the energy it takes to make grain-based ethanol and its inefficiency compared to gasoline, the science is inconclusive as to whether it really reduces greenhouse gas emissions, the study says. And even if it can be shown to reduce the total amount of CO2 spewed into the atmosphere, the cost per tonne is as much as seven times higher than other GHG-reducing strategies. Visit The Vancouver Sun for full article

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djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:1,541 Points:746,045 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 12:49:43 PM	Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse
	The only thing you have to do with ethanol is look at the facts. At this time it take food from us and raises the prices on meat, poultry and dairy. It gets about 15 to 20 percent less mileage. The pollution is still there. If the government is going to recommend something why not hydrogen. The government could also subsidize Hydrogen like it did ethanol or was there something under the table?
POLELANE Champion Author Ohio Posts:2,237 Points:237,225 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 12:45:02 PM	Ignore POLELANE Report Abuse
	freedom fries and corn e
Gee_NY Sophomore Author Texas Posts:137 Points:264,585 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 9:27:06 AM	Ignore Gee_NY Report Abuse
	Making ethanol from corn makes plenty of sense; they should also use the corn to produce vegetable/corn oil, to be used in diesel engines, and base stock for bio-diesel. Prices could be stabilized by limiting exports using an export tax, and we need to reconsidered farm subsidies. Funds from export taxes could be used to research other alternative fuels, as an offset subsidy for anyone purchasing a hybrid/alternative fuel type vehicles, infrastructure (solar/wind powered charging stations) for electric vehicles etc.
blazerbob91 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:1,186 Points:404,205 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:59:14 PM	Ignore blazerbob91 Report Abuse
	Farmers love it but the rest of us hate it.
guarddog Rookie Author Illinois Posts:64 Points:932,195 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:28:03 AM	Ignore guarddog Report Abuse
	ethanol can be made from plants like switch grass. it will grow anywhere. i guess thats too simple.
mrkel Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,676 Points:809,405 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:28:00 AM	Ignore mrkel Report Abuse
	Making Ethanol from corn makes very little sense and has helped to push corn prices up. Great for farmers who grow corn but bad for the rest of us including cattle farmers.
jep39 Veteran Author California Posts:300 Points:261,565 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:24:34 AM	Ignore jep39 Report Abuse
	ryakin: "Soilent Green" was an old movie, but you may be right. If we used people as a source of raw material to produce fuel, we would have an unlimited supply.
CrazyQ Champion Author Washington Posts:12,428 Points:1,459,450 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:13:43 AM	Ignore CrazyQ Report Abuse
	Some scientists believe that algae and plankton are the actual source of petroleum and are, even as we speak, creating more oil in the ocean depths.
EarlyMoose Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,844 Points:694,030 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:12:35 AM	Ignore EarlyMoose Report Abuse
	Ethanol from waste beer. Coors does that and is making E85 out of it. I'm sure other industries could do it too.
Wolfwings All-Star Author Delaware Posts:838 Points:250,390 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:03:06 AM	Ignore Wolfwings Report Abuse
	Why use viable food when algae works much better, is available in large quantities, and works just as good. While we are at it, how about methanol from garbage dumps, and solar power.
siouxbear Champion Author Ontario Posts:6,608 Points:534,035 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:02:24 AM	Ignore siouxbear Report Abuse
	I aviod ethanol when I can but most stations in my area have 10 %
Masercal Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,481 Points:339,635 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 11:00:42 AM	Ignore Masercal Report Abuse
	Ethanol has been the biggest waste this government has pushed. Tapping our food sources is no way to make fuel.
Greatace All-Star Author Tampa Posts:531 Points:332,085 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:58:00 AM	Ignore Greatace Report Abuse
	Cone on!!! People have already proved you can get the stuff from other product like tree bark and grass weed etc... So lets use it and leave the corn alone.
rustyOR Veteran Author Oregon Posts:484 Points:106,700 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:57:45 AM	Ignore rustyOR Report Abuse
	I agree.
357revo Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:6,765 Points:768,615 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:53:29 AM	Ignore 357revo Report Abuse
	The entire ethanol craze is based on the premise that the release of so-called greenhouse gases is affecting our climate. Yet the climate is not getting warmer [despite the hype of Al Gore, the Weather Channel, and a bunch of U.N. politicians writing summaries based on faulty models], and we are more in danger of global cooling than warming. Meanwhile, using corn-based ethanol as a substitute for gasoline is wasting other resources, which damages our overall economy.
nd73 Veteran Author Grand Rapids Posts:338 Points:216,870 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:48:57 AM	Ignore nd73 Report Abuse
	There are new studies everyday - and many of them have conflicting conclusions. That's why you don't elect a scientist to govern a country!!
n3his Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,543 Points:840,135 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:44:24 AM	Ignore n3his Report Abuse
	Do it and find out.
oncotime Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:9,285 Points:1,653,820 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:43:36 AM	Ignore oncotime Report Abuse
	not corn
acrider54 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:10,752 Points:1,885,880 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:43:27 AM	Ignore acrider54 Report Abuse
	ryakin, maybe you don't read the news, but in BC we have nothing but beetle killed pine trees in the province, might as well use them for something besides sending our raw logs to the States.
Somis1 Champion Author Ventura Posts:4,892 Points:1,062,000 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:42:55 AM	Ignore Somis1 Report Abuse
	How can ethanol be the answer when it takes more energy to make it than it contains?
Dinogam Champion Author Toronto Posts:2,066 Points:701,010 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:42:44 AM	Ignore Dinogam Report Abuse
	There is plenty of wood waste to derive it from
Cuzilla Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,967 Points:1,001,245 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:42:29 AM	Ignore Cuzilla Report Abuse
	Cellulosic-alcohal may be the answer but definitely NOT corn-based ethanol!
dopster All-Star Author Toledo Posts:624 Points:883,475 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:41:02 AM	Ignore dopster Report Abuse
	Ethanol doesn't have to, and shouldn't, come from our food supply. Just look at the weather related crop disasters in the Midwest to know how fragile our food supply is.
ryakin Rookie Author Wilmington Posts:7 Points:1,240 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:39:10 AM	Ignore ryakin Report Abuse
	yay, lets creat a shortage of something else, as if the wheat problems steming from to much corn being grown for ethanol wasn't enough. Whats the next Soilent Gas,...... oh my god it's people
RWPTraveller All-Star Author Virginia Posts:921 Points:381,100 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:29:35 AM	Ignore RWPTraveller Report Abuse
	That's right...add to the pain of rising gas costs with rising food prices...
waltjax All-Star Author Illinois Posts:670 Points:845,915 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:27:01 AM	Ignore waltjax Report Abuse
	Would that wood would make a good fuel. Would it?
deanjk Veteran Author Arkansas Posts:286 Points:82,935 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:24:04 AM	Ignore deanjk Report Abuse
	do it.
leolisa Champion Author New York Posts:3,925 Points:715,180 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:20:57 AM	Ignore leolisa Report Abuse
	all this talk about ethanol gives me a headache
laddyboy62 Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,576 Points:993,360 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:18:23 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	drilling is the answer...not all this crazy stuff
fratt Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,644 Points:1,022,900 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:07:15 AM	Ignore fratt Report Abuse
	It's worth a try.
courier400 Champion Author Kansas Posts:6,831 Points:1,593,285 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:04:33 AM	Ignore courier400 Report Abuse
	we waste a lot of food.
cableman31 All-Star Author New York Posts:764 Points:428,820 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:04:06 AM	Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse
	Again, Politicians shooting their mouths off and don't know what the hell thy are talking about. Most of the just like to hear themselves talk.
ladyjj Champion Author Tennessee Posts:1,445 Points:160,320 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:03:57 AM	Ignore ladyjj Report Abuse
	Things should have been done years ago to help stop the greenhouse gases. I just think they are trying to trade off one thing for another. Kind of like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire kind of thing.
lethal3pilot Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,364 Points:364,015 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:03:47 AM	Ignore lethal3pilot Report Abuse
	Old news, is right.
weenerdog Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,642 Points:300,360 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 10:03:07 AM	Ignore weenerdog Report Abuse
	There are lots of subsidies and other kinds of money in food. How do you expect politicians and their lobbyists to get rich making fuel from anything else? I can see it now; a garbage, lawn, and weed tax.
mwhals Champion Author Charleston Posts:4,833 Points:819,890 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:59:14 AM	Ignore mwhals Report Abuse
	Leave the food alone!
AlaRedNeck Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,167 Points:208,925 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:58:39 AM	Ignore AlaRedNeck Report Abuse
	I agree totally with what I am reading from several people this morning, vote the present group of politicians out of office as soon as they come up for reelection. When we start exersizing our power in the voting booth they will finally start to pay attention to what real people are going through. With their fat salaries, expense accounts and kickbacks the people in Washington have forgotten what it's like in the real world. If we all get off our butts and vote we won't have to settle for anymore Bushes, or whatever candidate the religious right deems fit to stick us with.
techque All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:661 Points:952,800 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:55:55 AM	Ignore techque Report Abuse
	maybe our current gasoline prices have been secretly manipulated up to make the PTB's (Powers That Be) investments in ethanol production profitable. It is definitely a looser with $2US/gallon gasoline.
fastfreddy38 All-Star Author Ontario Posts:855 Points:909,900 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:55:50 AM	Ignore fastfreddy38 Report Abuse
	Some sugar beets are grown in Manitoba.
sandtb All-Star Author Chicago Posts:756 Points:157,885 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:54:44 AM	Ignore sandtb Report Abuse
	Where do they grow sugar beets?
tags610 Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,352 Points:519,075 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:53:26 AM	Ignore tags610 Report Abuse
	Drill
lpj Champion Author Georgia Posts:4,001 Points:879,615 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:51:37 AM	Ignore lpj Report Abuse
	ethanol can be made from sugar beets instead of corn !!
Netscaper113 Champion Author New York City Posts:5,596 Points:1,095,145 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:51:07 AM	Ignore Netscaper113 Report Abuse
	figures...
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:2,099 Points:395,035 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:50:14 AM	Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse
	Matts_Pap ... I agree that all incumbents should be VOTED OUT of office.
Arktander All-Star Author Illinois Posts:602 Points:354,625 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:47:43 AM	Ignore Arktander Report Abuse
	They knew this before they legislated it.
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:2,099 Points:395,035 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:45:48 AM	Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse
	Too early for "new news."
Matts_Pap Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,272 Points:196,015 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:45:28 AM	Ignore Matts_Pap Report Abuse
	Ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, sadly it is "our money". Our politicians waste money without blinking an eye. When prices for everything increase they have their automatic pay increases and unbelievable benefits to soften the blow. Voting them out is our only recourse.
Stateline Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,410 Points:679,680 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:44:34 AM	Ignore Stateline Report Abuse
	opinion od the Vancouver Sun, nothing more
yelobus All-Star Author Houston Posts:642 Points:546,120 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:40:36 AM	Ignore yelobus Report Abuse
	Is ethanol a waste? Ask the Brazilians.
peakoil2010 All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:754 Points:150,900 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:39:23 AM	Ignore peakoil2010 Report Abuse
	not a good alternative